Curse

LifeInfusion · Nov 13, 2010, 05:37 AM // 05:37

After hitting 26 damage in Bogroot growth with 15 Fire magic Searing Flames...and then resigning to restart with air magic and PVE skills I realized that Eles have a skill that is more or less unused, which is their PVE skill. You can use BUH! or Intensity, but rarely will you run both. (The other skill , Elemental Lord, is more or less a blessing/consumable's effect.)

I suggested something here, and many people have previously suggested armor penetration or something that hinges on energy.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...sion/Intensity

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedb...vE-Only_Skills

There's a few things to keep in mind:
* exhaustion is an elementalist only mechanic
* For elemental damage, level counts, so does armor
* it can't boost other classes' damage more (see BUH)

Version 1: Intensity (25Energy,1Activation time,45Recharge time) Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, your spells deal 15...30% more damage and recover twice as fast from exhaustion. You are Exhausted if not under an Elementalist attunement.

Version 2: Intensity (5Energy,0.25Activation time,45Recharge time) Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, your Elementalist spells deal 15...30% more damage. You gain 1 Energy for every 5 ranks of Energy Storage whenever you use an Elementalist spell (minimum 25 energy). You are Exhausted.

Version 3: Intensity (5Energy,0.25Activation time,45Recharge time) Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, you do 15...25% more damage whenever you target a foe that has less energy than you and receive half the effects of exhaustion.

Version 4: Intensity (5Energy, 0Activation time, 20Recharge time) Stance. For 10 seconds, your Elementalist spells 15...25% more damage. You move 33...20% slower. You cannot deal damage with attacks and are exhausted.

Mora's Version 1: Intensity Intensity 5 Energy¼ Activation time10 Recharge time Hex Spell. For 15 seconds, your spells against target foe deal an additional 10...50% damage, and foes near your target suffer 5...25% of the damage done to the target.

Mora's Version 2: Intensity Intensity 5 Energy1 Activation time30 Recharge time Enchantment Spell. For 15...30 seconds, your spells deal 1% more damage for each point of Energy you have (maximum 25...75% more damage). This spell causes Exhaustion.

Discuss...

WhiteAsIce · Nov 13, 2010, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Posted here, reworking what I originally posted:
Enchantment: For 3 seconds plus 1 second for each rank of Energy Storage, your Elementalist skills* <fill in the blank from choices below>. Whenever you cast a spell that targets a foe, this enchantment reapplies itself.
A) deal 15..23..25% more damage
B) have +10..18..20% Armor Penetration

The change in duration means that non-Eles can only really maintain this with Flare, Icicle Spear, or Stone Daggers. This is meant to be used mainly for Eles, as Critical Agility is mainly for Sins. I didn't want the other caster professions to be able to cast spells better than an Ele.

* : I do believe touch skills do not count as spells, which is why I said Ele skills, not just spells.

Skye Marin · Nov 13, 2010, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Intensity
10 Energy, 1/4 Cast, 15 recharge.
For 15..20 seconds, your Elementalist spells have +15..25% armor penetration. Ends if you cast a non-Elementalist skill.

or

Intensity
10 Energy, 1/4 Cast, 20 recharge.
For 10..15 seconds, whenever you use a spell that would cause elemental damage, that damage ignores armor.

Chthon · Nov 13, 2010, 08:16 AM // 08:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAsIce

Posted here, reworking what I originally posted:
Enchantment: For 3 seconds plus 1 second for each rank of Energy Storage, your Elementalist skills* <fill in the blank from choices below>. Whenever you cast a spell that targets a foe, this enchantment reapplies itself.
A) deal 15..23..25% more damage
B) have +10..18..20% Armor Penetration

The change in duration means that non-Eles can only really maintain this with Flare, Icicle Spear, or Stone Daggers. This is meant to be used mainly for Eles, as Critical Agility is mainly for Sins. I didn't want the other caster professions to be able to cast spells better than an Ele.

* : I do believe touch skills do not count as spells, which is why I said Ele skills, not just spells.

More or less this.
Go with armor-pen % so that it scales instead of absolutely exploding everything with less than huge armor.
I'd suggest 10...33% AP, since 33% basically counteracts the effect of monster level creep from 20 to 30.

Devvu · Nov 13, 2010, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye Marin

Intensity
10 Energy, 1/4 Cast, 15 recharge.
For 15..20 seconds, your Elementalist spells have +15..25% armor penetration. Ends if you cast a non-Elementalist skill.

or

Intensity
10 Energy, 1/4 Cast, 20 recharge.
For 10..15 seconds, whenever you use a spell that would cause elemental damage, that damage ignores armor.

lol @ B. Sure, why not completely invert elementalists from laughable HM damage to ridiculous damage.

See : Searing flames.
If armor-ignoring, effectively AoE Discord, but only needing burning, and it applies it if it isn't there. 100~136 damage in nearby? Armor-ignoring? lul.

AndrewSX · Nov 13, 2010, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Enchantment: For 3 seconds plus 1 second for each rank of Energy Storage, your Elementalist skills* <fill in the blank from choices below>. Whenever you cast a spell that targets a foe, this enchantment reapplies itself.
A) deal 15..23..25% more damage
B) have +10..18..20% Armor Penetration

The change in duration means that non-Eles can only really maintain this with Flare, Icicle Spear, or Stone Daggers. This is meant to be used mainly for Eles, as Critical Agility is mainly for Sins. I didn't want the other caster professions to be able to cast spells better than an Ele.

This. Make intensity better than BUH (that's linked to a title) and more effective whit E storage...a enchantement only for Eles.

The "stance instead of enchantement" would be a good idea also for attunements in my opinion, but requires some skill rework(chain lighting exaustion for example)

Master Fuhon · Nov 13, 2010, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Team caster buffing ward, that boosts spell damage based on how many points you have in all your elemental attributes (lol Master of Magic).

Intensity 10e 1cast 20 recharge: For 10..20 seconds, non-spirit allies in this area strike for +1/2*(Earth Attribute + Fire Attribute + Water Attribute + Air Attribute)% damage with spells.

A simple Master of Magic build would give +24% damage to party casters, with personal cons +28%. Although a typical party of 8 for a pug (1 tank, 1 sos/imba, 2 healers), this wouldn't do much for. Trying to come up with something that gets an elementalist into a group for damage, but not multiple elementalists taking over spots for everything.

Terek Zelta · Nov 13, 2010, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

More or less this.
Go with armor-pen % so that it scales instead of absolutely exploding everything with less than huge armor.
I'd suggest 10...33% AP, since 33% basically counteracts the effect of monster level creep from 20 to 30.

Double this.

Very good ideas, Cthon and WhiteAsIce.

Haggis of Doom · Nov 13, 2010, 04:48 PM // 16:48

The whole concept is really nice and all.

But, what about heroes/henchies?

LifeInfusion · Nov 13, 2010, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

The whole concept is really nice and all.

But, what about heroes/henchies?

Doesn't matter. Do you bring warrior or assassin henches?

Other than Chiyo who has a SoS build with restoration in it (it's actually a decent build) there's not many henches of note. Mainly because SoS doesn't need any form of knowledge or skill to use.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Chiyo
* Essence Strike
* Flesh of My Flesh
* Mend Body and Soul
* Protective Was Kaolai
* Signet of Spirits (elite)
* Soothing Memories
* Spirit Siphon
* Vengeful Weapon

Anything that is run on heroes is inferior to a good human player (UA, for example, without Selfless Spirit and Seed of Life; Dervish without Eternal Aura; Paragon without spear of fury and There's nothing to fear;Warrior without Save yourselves! and whirlwind attack; rit without summon spirits). Mesmers and necros don't get that much (Cry of Pain is good, but not indispensable) but heros/hench are bad at targetting.

EDIT: also Erys Vasburg
* Backfire
* Cry of Frustration
* Empathy
* Ether Feast
* Leech Signet
* Psychic Instability (elite)
* Shatter Hex
* Resurrection Signet

& Dunham is decent, but doesn't do damage (he doesn't have cry of frustration).

* Drain Enchantment
* Empathy
* Ether Feast
* Hex Breaker
* Leech Signet
* Power Block (elite) (level 20 only)
* Shatter Hex
* Resurrection Signet

Also compared to other professions makeshift "attunements", elementalists are shafted when there's interrupts/enchantment removal since everything is priced with attunements in mind.

Awaken the Blood (10,1,45) --> if it gets stripped you lose 2 attribute levels
Healer's Boon (5,0.25,10) --> you lose 50% Health bonus and half cast time. It doesn't matter since it is easily recast.

Rumi The Poet · Nov 13, 2010, 04:54 PM // 16:54

imo pve is easy enough

ive never heard a monster say , " make Nibble more effective cuz this guys intensity is

just way unfair!!" or Dhuum say no fair why cant i use Pain Inverter on these guys

Haggis of Doom · Nov 13, 2010, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

*snip*

Two wrongs don't make a right. There's no inherent reason why we should take Xandra and Olias out but never Vekk (unless he's ER). Melee AI being broken doesn't justify ele heroes sucking at their primary intent.

Also, it's true that henchy bars suck. Not sure why you're bringing this fact up, since fixing ele mechanics doesn't mean giving ele henchies awesome bars.

Let me put it this way: fixing ele mechanics is like fixing melee AI (let's presume it's possible for comparison's sake). Would you be against fixing melee AI?

@Rumi:

I agree, but in this thread people are seeking balance, not mindless powercreep. We just want to be able to play the class as it's intended to: nuke!!!

Otherwise we're just losing game content, in a sense.

Ensign · Nov 13, 2010, 08:02 PM // 20:02

Might as well use other PvE-only skills as a guide for the proper PvE balance point.

Intensity

10e, .75c, 25r

Enchantment Spell. For 20 seconds, your Elementalist skills deal 40...70% more damage.

LifeInfusion · Nov 13, 2010, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haggis of Doom

Two wrongs don't make a right. There's no inherent reason why we should take Xandra and Olias out but never Vekk (unless he's ER). Melee AI being broken doesn't justify ele heroes sucking at their primary intent.

Also, it's true that henchy bars suck. Not sure why you're bringing this fact up, since fixing ele mechanics doesn't mean giving ele henchies awesome bars.

Let me put it this way: fixing ele mechanics is like fixing melee AI (let's presume it's possible for comparison's sake). Would you be against fixing melee AI?

@Rumi:

I agree, but in this thread people are seeking balance, not mindless powercreep. We just want to be able to play the class as it's intended to: nuke!!!

Otherwise we're just losing game content, in a sense.

Well the Ele hench tend to have stuff like Sandstorm, Firestorm, Searing Heat. These all cause scatter, so you could argue they are just as bad as melee heroes...maybe worse since the mobs break aggro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Enchantment Spell. For 20 seconds, your Elementalist skills deal 40...70% more damage.

I do a consistent 90-100 damage with 16 air magic Lightning orb and 140 to mobs that are not armored, but about 60-70 with 16 air magic chain lightning (lower ...40-50 against warriors and rangers).

So then we'd do 170 or so to most, 250 or so to unarmored stuff.

From other thread:

Quote:

75 with orb on kournan bowman
112 with orb on kournan zealot
92 kournan elite guard
80 kournan guard
124 kournan seer
125 kournan oppressor
69 on taskmaster lvl 30
80 on taskmaster vanahk
124 on elite scribe
99 grawl champion, demagogue
99 tumbled elemental ... 198 when it is heal sig

15 air (after grail of might's +1 air magic)
86 charr axemaster (grail of might)
146 ominous ooze (grail)
105 magma blister (grail)
86 charr shadow blade (grail)
124 grawl dark priest (grail)
132 fleshreaver harrower (grail)
132 charr defiler (grail)
146 fleashreaver hound (grail)
100 fleshreaver nephilim (grail)

From http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/l...t10438663.html

Quote:

give Intensity the following effects: Enchantment spell: Every time you use a spell that deals damage to a foe, that spell has 25% armor penetration and inflicts Cracked Armor (before damage).
Before people start crying OP, make sure it scales only with Energy Storage so that it can't be abused by other classes. This will solve a large chunk of Elementalist damage problems, upping their damage in HM significantly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arato

vapor blade as my primary damage skill, 143 damage at rank 16 on the tooltip...I was doing vapor blades for 39-43 damage. IE, my damage was about 1/4 of what it should be.

...Need tests done without using air magic. I remember seeing Unsteady ground hit for something along the lines of 11 DPS in HM when the listed damage was 42 or something (16 Earth magic).

Best test for each element (not air, pretty much settled it):
* Searing Flames at 15 Fire (a flat 100 damage)
* Dragon's Stomp/Earthquake at 15 Earth Magic (a flat 100 damage)
* Stoning at 14 Earth Magic (101 damage listed)
* Shatterstone at 15 Water Magic (100 damage listed)

A mix of mob types and levels (all Hard mode though) is needed as a test to make it a decent overview.

Ensign · Nov 13, 2010, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

I do a consistent 90-100 damage with 16 air magic Lightning orb and 140 to mobs that are not armored, but about 60-70 with 16 air magic chain lightning (lower ...40-50 against warriors and rangers).

So then we'd do 170 or so to most, 250 or so to unarmored stuff.

Yeah, still not quite there, but getting closer. There isn't anything else to stack is there?

LifeInfusion · Nov 14, 2010, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Yeah, still not quite there, but getting closer. There isn't anything else to stack is there?

"BUH!" +25% damage

But attribute bonuses:
glyph of elemental power +2 attribute
elemental lord +1 attribute
grail + 1attribute (and other cons like Golden eggs)
Blessings from shrines

A side note: Aura of holy might should be linked to dervishes.

Mashiyu · Nov 14, 2010, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Devvu

lol @ B. Sure, why not completely invert elementalists from laughable HM damage to ridiculous damage.

See : Searing flames.
If armor-ignoring, effectively AoE Discord, but only needing burning, and it applies it if it isn't there. 100~136 damage in nearby? Armor-ignoring? lul.

1.) It's only 82...106 (Fire 12...16)
2.) Look at the damage mesmers/necromancers
3.) Look at the damage of physicals
4.) Mesmers have also been buffed from laughable to ridiculus.
5.) Eles would need to sacrifice a slot to get armor-ignoring damage. (ANOTHER default skill in the ele bar)

Instead of changing only Intensity, I'd like to see a revamp of the elementalist (the downside of this may that a revamp would come in .. 2015?)

Energy Storage. For each point in Energy Storage you gain +2 maximal energy.
You gain 1 Energy plus 30% of the base Energy cost of the skill whenever you use an elementalist skill (maximum 1 energy every two ranks in Energy Storage).
or
Whenever you have successfully activated an elementalist skill, you gain 1 energy for every 2 ranks in Energy Storage back (maximum base energy cost of that skill)

Energy Storage is basically a perma-attunement. That way eles without attunements are possible. Eles wouldn't be vulnerable to enchantment removal, but they still lose energy when rupted.

Because attunements aren't needed anymore for energy management, the can changed to:
<Element> Attunement. 10e 2c 60r. For 10...55...60 seconds you deal 2..10..12% more damage with your <Element>magic skills. (You deal 20% less damage with other skills)
or
<Element> Attunement. 10e 3c 30r -1e. As long you maintain <Element> Attunement on yourself, you deal 2..10..12% more damage with your <Element>magic skills. (You deal 20% less damage with other skills)

Intensity. Add a +Armor Penetration version of Intensity from this thread here.

Xenomortis · Nov 14, 2010, 12:21 AM // 00:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

"BUH!" +25% damage

But attribute bonuses:
glyph of elemental power +2 attribute
elemental lord +1 attribute
grail + 1attribute (and other cons like Golden eggs)
Blessings from shrines

All of those work with the competitors and att boosts are pretty trivial.
Ensign's suggestion would at least boost the power level to the same degree that everything else has (well, maybe; I haven't looked at it very hard yet), it's just that I don't like how compressed it is.

Winterclaw · Nov 14, 2010, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Might as well use other PvE-only skills as a guide for the proper PvE balance point.

Intensity

10e, .75c, 25r

Enchantment Spell. For 20 seconds, your Elementalist skills deal 40...70% more damage.

Melee skills ignore armor, el skills don't so I would think that you'd have to boost it by a bit more. Also stacking skills is a bad idea for a suggestion because even if anet implements the idea, they'd end up keep you from stacking the effects. So the bonus must be good on its own.

I say 5e, 1/4c, 10r
Spell. For the next 5...10 seconds your next 3...7 elementalist skills cost 5 more energy and do 50%...100% more damage and cause exhaustion equal to 1/5th...1/10th their energy cost. This skill overrides the effects of any other skill that boosts damage. This skill causes exhaustion.

Xenomortis · Nov 14, 2010, 12:25 AM // 00:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I say 5e, 1/4c, 10r
Spell. For the next 5...10 seconds your next 3...7 elementalist skills cost 5 more energy and do 50%...100% more damage and cause exhaustion equal to 1/5th...1/10th their energy cost. This skill overrides the effects of any other skill that boosts damage. This skill causes exhaustion.

This wouldn't change anything - it's far too messy and the cost means you're pretty much scuttled after a while.